Coaching Performance with Alexis Chamow

Coaching Performance with Alexis Chamow

Keeping Agile Non-Denominational, Episode 15

Alex Kudinov   Welcome to another episode of Tandem Coaching Academy's Keeping Agile Non-Denominational podcast. We are your hosts, Cherie Silas and I'm Alex Kudinov and today our guest is Alexis Chamow. Alexis, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Alexis Chamow   That would be a pleasure and actually, as I do that here in our Zoom worlds, you guys can tell me about my lighting. What do you think?

Alex Kudinov   Perfect?

Alexis Chamow   Is it changing? Is it getting worse or better? Can you tell? Everybody has a ring light now, don't we? I forgot to put that on before we started. *laughs* It's so fun to be here! Cherie and I have recently made each other's acquaintance and now find ourselves in a variety of rooms together. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be in this space with both of you. My background actually is as a performer and I moved into working in Arts and Education, and directing, and producing, and running education programs for major regional theaters here in Los Angeles. That got me working with adults who tend to sabotage themselves when they're in presentation situations, and they identify as more introverted or cautious or in some way. There's that Seinfeld joke about how at the funeral, you'd rather be the one in the coffin than giving the eulogy.  So there are plenty of people who have enough of a fear of public speaking and presenting that a lot of the tools and skills that I was working on in Arts Education for young people, I ended up pivoting and doing that with adults. It was really profound; giving people tools to help them communicate better and to feel more confident being public with their presence.  That kind of got me into coaching more in a presentation context but as I was doing that, I realized that I felt like there was more to it and more to learn. Often, it wasn't just that people were uncomfortable getting up in front of a group but there was something else that was going on; they felt like they weren't saying something that was worth being heard, or someone else could have said it better, or any 'fill in the blank.' So I decided that I wanted to go and get my coaching credential because that seems like the Yin to the Yang; understanding what was going on for people beyond the presentation. So if that's what they were doing and who they were being when they were showing up for it. So I certified as a coach and I started my practice, A of All Arts, in 2007. I have worked as both a personal and professional coach and that is for executive coaching, as well as team coaching, as well as presentation coaching, and that's where we are now.

Alex Kudinov   Fantastic and I'm not going to let go of that piece when you are talking about somebody would rather rest in the coffins and giving eulogy. How, as a coach, do you tell them to get out of the damn coffin and give the damn eulogy?

Alexis Chamow   That's awesome. Well, some of it is the concrete skills. There's this fine line, often between coaching and consulting, and so when I was initially starting, it was very much consulting; which was sort of like I would start working with someone who found me through a theater and they had an executive that was coming up with an important keynote that they needed some guidance on. So I would go in and it had everything to do with breathing from your diaphragm and imagining that you're speaking to someone that you care deeply about, or in other instances, imagining something else, then frequently featuring the WHY prominently, which allows you to get outside of yourself and more into like the point of the whole thing. So that's a lot of how you do it. It also, though, is a lot of consulting, it's a lot of saying, "Well think about this" or "Try this" and a skill set that I had as a performer, that I kind of pivoted into consulting, and the coaching part of it then came in and it was like, "Well, what if it's not just that they don't know how to use their diaphragm but what if it's that they're either holding on to some belief, or having some sort of friction, or stuckness, around why it is that they think this particular part of their growth or development is so challenging? I don't know if that answers the question but most people, when pressed, were able to do it, and not only do it -- rise from the coffin to give the speech -- but really find joy in it because they realize how of service they can be. When you have a platform that allows you to show up in that way and speak to something that's larger than you, you're like, "Oh, I get it. I get it now. Okay, everything out of my way, including me. Let me do what I have to do."

Alex Kudinov   'I have a reason and I'm ready to speak!'

Alexis Chamow   Exactly, exactly.

Alex Kudinov   So it sounds like coaching skills have complimented your skill set that you brought to the table and what were you able to do with coaching skills that was not available to you as just a consultant?

Alexis Chamow   Oh, that's great. You know, what popped into my head, right as you said that, is there's this learning curve I think, for me there was, in when you're starting as a consultant, it's like, 'Let me demonstrate how many skills I have. Let me demonstrate how valuable I am. This is what I must do.' Then as you get more and more comfortable, you're able to be like, "I don't...I don't know. I don't...I don't know. Let's see." So the thing that coaching does is it's that it sort of demands you show up without knowing and that's very different than consulting. So I think there's flip sides that allow you to be of service in different ways to a client who's looking for both but I actually found, initially, tension and being like, "But I know the answer. I know! I know what they need to think, to do; whatever. Then in coaching being like, "What if I don't? What if I have no idea? What's gonna get them there? What if I really don't know? It was amazing because that's when you have those moments where you realize that they're going to come up with it on their own when they're prompted with the right space, or the right question, or psychological safety, or any of these things that we learn about as coaches. So I have this practice, sometimes it's literal and sometimes it's figurative, where I'll put on different hats. I'm also an entrepreneur; I started my business and so sometimes it's the CEO hat, sometimes it's the facilitator hat, sometimes it's the coach hat, and sometimes it's the consultant hat and when I'm working with a client, I'm very transparent about which one I have on. The coaching and consulting is the most frequent one that I'm working with a client but that's partly why coaching complemented the consulting. Now they're sort of intermingled in a way that I would have a hard time separating.

Cherie Silas   Alexis, how do you know when to take off one hat and put on another hat?

Alexis Chamow   I mean, part of it, I think, is intuition and in practice. Also, I might be wrong, I'm really good with being fine being wrong. So that's another thing where I will frequently caveat to whoever it is that I'm speaking with, "I could be totally off base but here's what's coming up for me" or "I'm feeling compelled to put on my consultant hat. Does that feel right to you or no?" My clients will say, "Yes, please!" or they'll be like, "No, not yet. I'm not-- I need to keep going." So we're in the kind of rapport that everything is just sort of sitting right there to be used as an opportunity. I think, I don't know, I have a guess, and I might be right, I might be wrong and we're doing that dance together.

Cherie Silas   You know, what's really skillful about that, from the coaching perspective, is partnering with the client; giving them the option. "Hey, here's what's going on. Here's what I think. Where do we need to go with this? So it was a lot of really great partnership. And so I'm wondering, you're talking a bit about the impact to you that coaching is brought into your practice. And I'm wondering about the impact to your clients, how is this changed? You know, what's going on for them what value they're seeing in the work you do with him? That's a great question.

Alexis Chamow   Well, so what came to mind just as you were, just as you were asking, that is I have a client who I'm going to keep her appropriately anonymous, but she is someone who identified as deeply and wildly introverted. But also was really good at what she did. And people were constantly like, you should teach this to other people. It's such a great skill and they need to know how to do it. And so I got brought in, it was a referral. And I started working with her and there was so much fear in her that was from so many things. I mean, it Historically, she had had some disappointments. And she had also had some chances that she didn't take. And she had finally landed herself literally in a job where she didn't have to talk to anybody. She could just do her thing. But she was so good at it that everybody was like, talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. And the part where I gave her a physical warm up, and I talked about projection, and pausing, and versatility with her breath and her voice, and we drafted scripts together, all of that was straight up consulting. But the part that was unpacking why she got so anxious at the prospect, or, you know, that she would second guess herself didn't trust memorization didn't trust that it would land and trust that anybody would get all the stuff was all coaching. And so we would decide ahead of time, which kind of session are we heading into today? What are you up for? And I'm not making this up, she now is on national circuits lecturing about this thing that she does. And it's largely because when she was able to tackle these pieces that had to do with the habituated fear, and instead say, Well, what might be possible if we focus over here, or who's missing out, because you're not sharing your knowledge, or these kinds of other ways of potentially looking at things. And those are right, the coaching questions, which may just be like what else, or they may be like, a little bit more pointed. That's all me not knowing and sort of just that partnering with her in the space to see where we go. But over here it was like, and breathe, and stretch. And make sure that when you put your face this way your body is this way so that you're actually including everyone, right? Those are things that are consulting, and they complement the coaching and the coaching does the same with the present the presentation work? Does it Did that answer? I don't know if I got to.

 Yeah, did an obviously a lot of really great client impact.

Alexis Chamow   I mean, you know, one would hope all my businesses referral and my dad's cards for right now. So I'm gonna say it works. It seems to be it seems to be a chemistry that. That's balanced for right now.

Cherie Silas   Yeah. And so when you're working with corporations, and I guess trying to help them understand why they should bring coaching into their organizations, and value is how does that? How does that look from a dollars and cents perspective? Yeah, great impact? And how much is it going to cost me and why should I spend it?

Alexis Chamow   Yeah, exactly. And there are some people that Well, let me let me start by saying this, I'm, I'm pretty assertive with who is my client and who's not my client. And what I mean by that is, if you're bringing me in to coach someone out, I'm not your I'm not your person. Because like, you should be doing that, on your own, have the have the courage to have the conversation you need to have don't bring me in to be your buffer. And I understand that businesses, business and corporations are corporations. And so frequently, I'm more consistently partnered with organizations who believe in coaching as part of their culture, or who believe genuinely with their dollars in professional development, and who have ways that their people are able to say what it is that that means to them. And so I'm not fighting the Battle of selling the virtue of coaching at the outset. Because if I'm there with them, then we are ready may or may not be a good match, if that makes sense. So it's more like, if you have a culture that is genuinely invested in your people, if you have like a chief people officer, if you have people who are able to identify annually what it is that they want to do for their professional development, if you have l&d programs, if you have senior leadership, who believe in the virtue of it, then I'm in. I don't want to spend my my time selling people on the virtue of it because there's too much sort of catching up you have to do and too much micromanaging that's being done. And so what I try to do instead is be transparent with my process, from soup to nuts, and say, here's how I work. Here's what you're going to be privy to. Here's what you're not, here are the pieces that are non negotiable. Here are the pieces that have wiggle room and I Ask a lot of questions. What do you need? What does success look like? What else has been offered to this individual? And sometimes it's individual, sometimes it's teams. And inevitably, I will end up working in multiple ways with a single individual or within an organization based on what's yielded by that conversation. So what I say to them is, what do you after? And if what they're after is something that I'm confident I can be a part of supporting? Then we're good partnership.

Alex Kudinov   It sounds like you know, your client, and you choose your clients very carefully. I'm curious if you have one or two of those silver bullet questions that you go, though you're asked, and you know, that's your client or email? Nope, not gonna take you?

Alexis Chamow   It's a great question. These are great questions. So there's two. The first is are they okay with confidentiality in the process? And the second is, will they allow me a consultation with the client before we get engaged? So I always have a chemistry check with the client that I am being brought in to work with. And that's part of my deal. The other part of my deal is

 what I say that first piece,

Cherie Silas   I'm blanking on it.

Alex Kudinov   Your confidentiality.

Alexis Chamow   Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Look, see, I was doing it.

 Yeah, like confidentiality,

Alexis Chamow   they have to be comfortable with the confidentiality once we're in it. And so what we do is, if we contract my question, by the way that I will always ask the client, or I was asked of myself in the presence of the client, does this person want to be coached? Number one, number two, is this person is this person capable of being coached, because sometimes they don't want it. But I can feel that when we're in rapport in a session, they'll get there. But sometimes I can feel that they don't want it, and they're not going to get there. And I won't, I won't take that I won't take that client on. It's just it's a waste of time. And the, you know, sponsors money. So what we do, if let's say it's a go, we all decide we're good to go, we initially triangulate, and I've been having a number of conversations with colleagues currently about this, but whoever it is, it's bringing in a supervisor or an HR rep, whatever it is. And the client, the client, and myself will have some sort of a triangulation, that's ideal. It doesn't always happen. But what I make sure of is what I say to whoever is bringing me in is, okay, you're gonna have that conversation with the client, right? This information is okay for me to share with the client, right? So that as we're level setting, as we're getting going, we all have the same information. And this is with respect to HR and supervision and leadership, I understand that there are things they need to keep confidential as well. So that's fine. And it's going to swing the same when I'm in session with a client. And so what we do is we map out what are our deliverables or what are our I call it the client's desired results. And in that first session, we map out what it is that if we're successful, the client will have moved to or moved on. So it may be that they say more strategic management, or more customized management of my team members, more tools to handle challenging conversations. And these line items will go into the contract. And whoever hires me, whoever brings me in at the corporation gets that contract that the client and I have mapped out and the client has final approval, yes, I'm ready. And they're the ones that send it to HR, their leader, whatever. And from that point, it also in there says we're meeting weekly or we're meeting monthly or the like, it's got all the terms and all the business in there. So we're all on the same page. And from that point, whoever brought me in understands now whatever it is that we're doing, is between the two of us. I will say that I have a couple of people that I work with who are new to coaching as leaders, and they're like, I don't quite get how this works. And so I will build in check ins with them, just to keep them posted on the progress. And it's different. I'm not sharing confidential information, but I am letting them know kind of where we are as as the as the engagement proceeds.

Alex Kudinov   So this is really fascinating conversation about those classic kind of sweet parties contracts. Right. And we talk a lot about them in our classes. And people usually ask a lot of questions how that works and how the goals work. And if employer pays for their employee, what do they get out of that? How, like, how's the information flows and all that, I wanted to kind of focus a little bit on something you said that you work not only with an individuals, but also with teams, what kind of complications arise there in terms of kind of your contracting?

Alexis Chamow   So okay, let me be, let me let me define what I mean by working with teams just because this is an audience of coaches. And that will mean different things to different people. I am not necessarily a team coach, as much as I work with individuals on a team. And so what that means is, let's say you're the senior executive in charge of blah, blah, blah, and I'm working with you, as a client, and you go, I want you to work with my team. And so what happens is, then their direct reports. So what it'll look like is I have this one senior leader that I'm working with coaching with. And then this is real, she has five people who are her leadership team. And she wants me to work with all of them as well. And so I'm not I'm working with them altogether, in the sense that we will be doing, we haven't started this yet. I've done this model before. But we do. every other month, we do workshops, where we come together and have a particular theme that we're focusing on. And a purpose of that is just to bring everybody together, out of the maelstrom of the regular work day and say, let's keep connected. But then individually, this is a team that has been newly assembled. And so part of what we're doing is thematically exploring some things that are just going to happen as part of change management. And then also each of them is going to have their own individual friction points with it. And so she is looking at customized resourcing for them, and knows I'm confidential. So I'm not sharing information from one to the other. But I may have a broader sense of the ecosystem. So that when I know that something is happening over here, and I know that something is happening over here, I can then raise the question to everybody, would it be useful for us to have a workshop on blank, and I know that three of them are having friction with it. So most likely, they're going to say yes, and whether it's like scheduling or the meeting culture, or whatever it is, we're then able to come together to tackle a thing, and it's almost like we're doing a 360 ecosystem 360 at the same time, that we're doing individual coaching. So that's what I mean, when I say I'm coaching a team,

Cherie Silas   I can imagine that you must sometimes run into issues of either conflict of interest or other kind of borderline ethical things that arise. Uh huh. So what's your story on those? And how do you handle it?

Alexis Chamow   Yeah, it's a it's a great question. So there's, there's a couple things. The first is yes. And I think ethics are huge in coaching. I mean, they're huge period, but they're especially huge in this world where we're dealing with people and their peacefulness all the time.

 I love that. You know, you

Alexis Chamow   know what I'm saying? Like, you could do one thing that somebody doesn't, okay, I like, I'll give you an example. I had a client who had a situation where there was a lot of friction with a colleague. And her impulse was, I want to make it better. So she reached out, the colleague said, don't, don't reach out. I don't want to hear from you again. And she reached out again, cuz she was like, No, no, you don't understand, I did that. And the other person was like, if you reach out again, and it was sort of like threatening her with and my client was like, I'm just trying to make it better. And I had to stop and be like, no, here's the ethics about that. If someone tells you don't get in touch with me, don't get in touch with them. And then I was like,

 is that right?

 Is that right?

Alexis Chamow   And so like my, I was clear on the ethics in her situation, but then I was like, I should be clear if there's like ethics perspective on this ethics question. And so that was actually I went, I was training and supervision and I went to a supervisor who specializes in ethics. She was like, 100%, you honor the very clear statement that the person has made and you stop contacting them, like, you may want to reconcile it, but you don't get to choose that if someone else is like, stay out of my space. So I was like, okay, but the thing that you start to notice is how many things can become ethical questions. I had another situation This was I was this was a bonafide like team. This, this was a hard, awesome situation that I was I was working with a team for about nine months. And it was super high stakes. And I was brought in by not a member of the team. But something came up with one of the team members. And I made a decision based on my interaction with that individual. But then I got in big trouble, because it wasn't perceived to be the right decision from outside. And what I became aware of, and this was, again, in conversation and supervision, the HR or leadership or the culture of the company, has their own code of ethics. And coaching has theirs, and I may have mine, and you may have yours. And so all of the stuff has to be clear before we head in. So one of the recommendations that was given to me was, whenever you're going into a corporation, you always want to get their Handbook, their employee handbook, which gives you the clear guidelines for what is and is not considered ethical behavior. And know that before you head into an engagement with that company, and then also the work that we're doing on a regular basis to say, is there a concern around this that's ethical, or is it a point of view concern. And to your point, also, Sree about conflict of interest. If it starts to CUSP on that, then I name it. And I essentially say, you know, I'm speaking with the person that you're talking about, and we should come to an agreement about how we want to proceed from this point, because I'm never going to say anything to them. But having this information about them, may or may not affect the way you and I move forward or the way, you know, he she and I move forward or whatever. And so I'll ask is this Paramount is what you're telling me now paramount to something that's happening for you? Or is it a venting that might be just as well given to a friend or a colleague. And so we sort of check in, as soon as it starts to be like, you know, you get that you get that feeling? It's like and as soon as that starts to happen, I'm like, you gotta address that stuff. Like right when it comes up. Yeah,

Cherie Silas   you kind of feel that getting squished in the middle thing. Yeah,

 yeah,

Alexis Chamow   it's that it's just that little, or like the hand on the chalkboard, like in your brain you're like,

Cherie Silas   so just some clarity for our listeners. You know, I'm talking to this person, what you were referring to is in this group, right? They already all knew that you're working with all five of them. Exactly. By the way, I'm coaching them to

Alexis Chamow   exactly and I want to be clear, because I will work in, I work with companies and I have I'm working with a company now that I have, I probably have, I don't know, it doesn't coaching clients. They don't know about each other, because they're in different aspects of the business. But if a leader of a particular team wants me to work with the people on her team, then part of my agreement to do that is okay, you need to let them know who else I'm working with on the team. But not necessarily across the business. Does that make sense?

Cherie Silas   It makes a lot of sense. You're saying a lot of things here that was like No, interesting. I never thought about that, like the head. So you brought up supervision a couple of times. And to be quite honest, a lot of our listeners are in the Americas and in the Americas not such a new thing. Can you talk a little bit about the value of supervision and how that is actually impacting your, your coaching practice?

Alexis Chamow   Yeah, definitely. I will say, supervision approached me maybe three different times. And I was like, Oh, that sounds like I totally don't get what it is, like I had I definitely had felt like, I don't get it. I'm really like, and then somebody tried to explain it to me. And they said, you know, it's basically like for any friction that comes up when you're in a coaching session or something that you want to examine about your own way of working and I was like, cool. No, I don't have that. Because if something comes up, I just tell my client or I already have another coach that I talked to like I didn't, I didn't, I didn't get it. And then I actually reached out to Damien Goldberg, which I certified as a coach with him at the Center for nonprofit management here in Los Angeles. And I said to him, you know, it's been whatever Seven years, eight years, and I'm ready, I'm ready for something else. I'm thinking about this. And I'm thinking about this. What do you think? And he said, Oh, you should join my supervision cohort. And I was like,

 hey,

Alexis Chamow   Damien, I'm gonna be honest. I was like, I don't get it. I don't get supervision. And he was like, okay, so come to my special interest group, I have the CIG with ICF, la international coach Federation Los Angeles, and see what you think. And I was like, Oh, this is good. So I have like 45 minutes to sit and actually be a part of a group supervision thing. And it was delightful. It was delightful. First, because I was with a group of coaches, it was delightful. Second, because I sort of understood a little better what was meant by working on a thing that's coming up for you. And really, I think it's a level of sophistication that's added to our practice, it's professionalizing, the profession, in the sense that I had my most recent supervision session, which was a couple days ago. with Joe, Tanya, I had a supervision session with her. And we were talking about a client of mine, when I contract I will frequently include as a line item 24, seven access, especially when I work with clients who have jobs where things are coming up, once I so few of them, take me up on it. So few of them take me up on reaching out multiple times in between, because everybody's really busy. But I am available, should they want to. And I have one client who is currently reaching out to me constantly, constantly. And I feel like I totally want to be there for her. But then I also feel like, but am I then keeping her from finding it herself? Am I being maternal? Am I being you know, all the things. And I brought this to supervision. And where I arrived, and where Joe held space for me to get was we were talking about like the ark of mastery. And that in the in the space where someone's learning something, that's where they feel the most crap about it. And so that's also the place where it's the messiest. And where someone who's willing to be vulnerable is reaching out. And then as they start to sort of create new habits or new ways of working, they don't need as much support because now they've got it ingrained, right. And this is that whole arc of, of unconscious incompetence moving to unconscious competence. And so what came up for me in the midst of this is I'm not it's not going to be 24, seven forever, it's 24. Seven, while she's at this part of her learning curve, and like the simple fact of coming up with that clarity of what was going on, for me interacting with this question that I could have just stopped it boundaries. That's what it was about. It wasn't about that it was about something that was much bigger, and supervision gave me the space, in collaboration with another, you know, another practice coach to arrive at a thing I would not have arrived at on my own. And those things come up all the time. Those little things that are real life and in the moment come up all the time. So supervision is really a great space to reflect on them. And to just sort of have a moment to be peaceful and consideration.

Cherie Silas   Yeah, thank you. Mm hmm. So we've peppered you with a lot of questions today. That's so fun. And I want to hear what you haven't said that we haven't asked. But you think it's good for people to know.

Alexis Chamow   Interesting? Well, I will say and this is maybe because supervision was the last question. One of the things that was a real Aha, for me, in terms of the supervision work, is the background. So we always talk about what else is going on systemically like what else is in the ecosystem. And I feel like you said most of your listeners are in the Americas. I feel like right now especially. We have had we there's so much in the background at any given moment. And whether it's COVID, or systemic racism, or the politics, or the environment and the wildfires that like, I mean, take your pick of the things. This background informs everything that we do, if not directly indirectly. And sometimes it's just sort of fuzzy and hanging out. And sometimes things come into really strong relief. And so one of the things that I think is super key to remember right now, as coaches and in our practice, is that that's not something that goes away or that you sort of set aside to do your work as much as that's something that you acknowledge the presence of in the midst of your work. And so instead of being like,

Cherie Silas   ooh, you get on the doorstep. There,

Alexis Chamow   it's like, what would it look like if you could hold that reality, at the same time that you make a choice to focus on something else for this moment. And I think that that idea of being intentional, is a really useful tactic to take into sessions and into our own practice when we're looking at our own wellness and our own way of serving. Yeah,

 that's it.

Alexis Chamow   I'll say that that's what I think.

Alex Kudinov   So that's fascinating. I also want to make a little connection with supervision. And what I understand you're talking about is that level three, listening, right? level two, when we've listened to the client, what's sad, what's not said adult that so it's already kind of went up in our hands. But level three, it's like this bubble of the world, and the environment, and all the noises, and all the smells, and all the politics and all of the fires and all that and how that affects the whole ecology of this space, the whole of this bubble of client and coach. So how can supervision in your mind can help a coach to get from that level to where people usually are comfortable? Like, if you are a ccpc? Probably comfortable there. Right? I know that a lot of people are struggling with getting to that level three, what's what what kind of help can supervision provides with that? Well,

Alexis Chamow   okay, so what you're saying, brings up for me something that is in process right now, with a colleague of mine, and myself, I'm working with Sarah Evans, who is a professor and practitioner and she and I are writing a chapter for America's coach supervision network is coming out with her first book. And we're writing a chapter on resilience. We're both super interested in resilience. And we've created a framework that we're putting into this chapter around reciprocal resilience, resourcing, and what we talked about is supervision, as a space, where we can reciprocate resilience. So it's essentially if you imagine this, like, it could be the eye of a storm, it could be a little Eddy in what might otherwise be a raging river. But it's this space of calm, where you're able to be with one another, either bringing a case or bringing a theme or something to explore in a quiet, reflective moment. And to say, what do I want to do with this? Or what do I want to consider about this. And in doing that, in partnership, the goal of supervision is you take something away, and I take something away, whichever one of us brings the case or the situation to examine. We all are meant to leave when it goes well. Better resourced, and in our mind, that means more resilient. And so for me, and for Sarah, what we're examining is how do we really hone in on the process to create a supervision space that is resilient, and then to breed resilience for one another in it?

 Are you Karen Potter fan? I,

 yes, in

Alexis Chamow   the sense that. I love storytelling, and she does a fantastic job of storytelling. I have to say like, my sister's a Harry Potter fan, which meant she went to Universal in costume and like, like, I'm not that kind of Harry Potter fan.

Alex Kudinov   But you saw the movies? Oh,

Alexis Chamow   yeah, of course. Of course. You

Alex Kudinov   know, you know what it reminds me especially when you said it's the river. You remember, like the last movie when there's a battle and when Harry Potter goes to the, to the forest, kind of and he's getting killed. And then there's a scene in this pristine white station. And he's talking to Dumbledore, like out of space out of time. Take your breath, and then just go back into the battle. Mm hmm. Interesting. All right. So Alexis, you mentioned in the book you mentioned what you're kind of working on in partnership. What else is going on? All right,

 so what's up for me right

 now is

Alexis Chamow   a big focus. I'm working on this chapter for America supervision coaching And America's coaching supervision network. And I'm doing a lot of joining that community right now. So I met a lot of meetings with colleagues and conferences around supervision. I'm working as a supervisor toward my credential with the MCC. And working on the chapter and continuing to do a lot of one on one coaching, continuing to do the teamwork, team coaching. And I think a lot of the shift with COVID, a lot of the shift with working from home has meant that I've had to iterate a bit on facilitation, because I also do, I do a lot of workshops and events and team builds and things like that. And so doing that, you know, four or five hours running programs in the virtual space. There's quite a few of those. And I also train people to do their own. So that's a lot of what's been going on lately.

Alex Kudinov   And if our listeners desire to just so how can they contact you?

Alexis Chamow   Yeah, through my website, it's a o f, all a Ll arts AR t s.com. And their, I believe is a link there for my scheduler and I do consultation sessions. If anyone would be interested in either having me in an organization or doing one on one work, that would be the way to find me.

Alex Kudinov   Fantastic. Well, thanks Alexis so much for spending your time together with us today. It was really great, really great to hear all these perspectives and really fresh thoughts. So it was tendon coaching, Academy keeping agile nondenominational podcast and we were your host Sheree stiles and Alex good enough by now.

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